Yay – tourist visa arrives, bring the journey on!

So finally, progress is being made.  I was very excited when the doorbell rang a couple of days ago as it could only mean one thing, recorded delivery item, i.e. returning passport.  It’s come.  Pretty much when expected.  I paid extra for express turnaround (2-days), and I’m glad I did.  I posted it on Wednesday, they received it on Thursday.  Presumably processed Friday/Monday and I got it back on Tuesday.  Here is is:

I like that it is colourful and looks like a ‘proper’ adventurers stamp for my passport.  I’ve not travelled a great deal, but when I do, I enjoy the rituals of visa stamps and the souvenir solidity of the stick in visa is very pleasing.  At one point, it was suggested I might consider a ‘visa on arrival’ application, but I wasn’t comfortable with that for a number of reasons:

• The Vietnamese embassy in London explicitly advises against these
• There are warnings of scam websites that don’t give you the service you are hoping for
• Some bloggers out there indicate problems with Visas on arrival, more specifically if you are arriving over land as opposed to via an airport I don’t think you can get them.  This does not apply to me, but does not give me confidence in the process
• If you have a visa on arrival, this can apparently be problematic if you don’t have an onward flight ticket.  I want to avoid this complication because although I will have an onward flight booked, it will be for a date after my tourist visa has expired, in anticipation of getting a business visa sorted for a longer period once I’ve reached my host.  Even though a lot of the advice online increasingly suggests using a tourist visa to gain entry and converting at a later stage is common practice – and it is what my hosts have advised me to do – I don’t know if it is entirely acceptable and legitimate and I don’t really want to get into a discussion about my exact plans if that’s going to create problems.  For others, you might also keep in mind that if you plan to e.g. fly in and then leave by a land border, you might also want to consider avoiding possible complications by going for a visa in advance if possible
• Finally – most importantly, it just gives a bit of certainty.  I don’t want to pay for flights, travel insurance and everything else but still be a bit unsure about how it will go on arrival.

So, hooray, it’s becoming real suddenly, eek!

Aaaargh, Business Visa Defeat! Activate back-up plan for Vietnam…

Yesterday was my last day at work, so I’ve done the ‘goodbye and thanks for all the fish’ routine.  It was grim, I didn’t leave the office until gone 7.00 p.m. and it was a lonely and rather thankless day.  However, I wanted to leave everything as professionally as possible irrespective of the reality that my carefully labelled files may never again see the light of day. Anyway,  the upshot of this, is that there is no going back, P45 pending, I’m going to have to head off somewhere, hence I could do with a break frankly, so it was a shame that today brought bad news, though also potentially a solution.

First The Bad News:

Today, I got back in the post my documents that I’d sent to be legalised.  I feel thwarted, I’m supposed to be leaving in a couple of weeks and I haven’t made it over the first administrative hurdle!   It seems that I haven’t followed correct procedure.   So you can perhaps succeed where I have failed, the process – as I now understand it – I will give below, but honestly, I’m increasingly thinking applying for a Business Visa in advance is too problematic, don’t even go there, find a work around.  If you have to, then try this:

• Dig out your relevant certificates
• Get these copied, and then the copies certified by a public notary – I have abandoned the pre-departure business visa application route so haven’t done this, looks potentially expensive
• Then they need to be approved again by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office – nope, absolutely no idea to which section, how long it takes etc
• Then finally, send the approved documents for legalisation by the Vietnamese Embassy – but this is still unclear, they say they retain them, my contacts in Vietnam want to have them, does not compute
• Presumably, then (if you have letter of invitation, medical certificate, police certificate) you can try again for a business visa, but I wonder if recently appearing guidance means it better left to your business associate to navigate and pay for too!

Frankly, I could scream, this has already been a time consuming, opaque and expensive process.  I am grateful that my certificates and copies were returned together with a cash refund (minus postage) of my postal order, but even so, I am quite taken aback at how problematic the process of trying to get a business visa has been.  Not for the faint-hearted, but possibly not even appropriate to try.  I think increasingly because my hosts haven’t had anyone from the UK before they aren’t able to appreciate how off-putting and whole visa malarkey can be.  Worsened because throughout all of this I can’t get anyone to talk to me at all, or respond to email enquiries that ask for specific clarification.

A possible solution:

So, on a brighter note, I finally got a helpful email today from the intermediary who originally passed on my application to the Vietnamese University.  It was a relief to finally get a clear steer.  Essentially, the recommendation is ‘From what I understand from the website of Embassy of Vietnam in UK, they stopped processing business visa due to some legal changes.  Applying for such visa should be cumbersome. Therefore I advise you to apply for tourist visa and carry relevant documents with you. As soon as you arrive in Vietnam, we will support your business visa application‘.  So this is what I’m going to do, next challenge is getting a tourist visa, as once again there is contradictory information on the embassy website.

Bring on The Tourist Visa Challenge:

Check the relevant website – no costs are given you have to email for that.  There is an online form, but I couldn’t get it to work, though that was a relief quite honestly, as the pdf is much more straightforward to make sense of.  For example, The online form requires a passport photo that is 4 cm by 6 cm, the downloadable pdf asks for a more UK standard size photo to be attached.

There are no costs given on the website, and the email I received in connection with my request for clarification about this only gives costs for a 30 day visa.  I’m worried this wont be long enough as I plan to arrive just at the start of Tet, a massive Vietnamese holiday for the lunar new year.  I’ve seen this described as a mix of millennium new year celebrations, Christmas, New Year, Birthdays, the whole kit bang and caboodle rolled into one.  I don’t think they’ll be much visa application processing going on then!  I do want to do this, but the bureaucracy is a real deterrent.

I try to remember that possibly I’m a pathfinder here.  Once I’ve worked it out it will be easy to advise someone coming after me, I suppose you have to do the equivalent of ‘kissing a lot of frogs’ before you meet you handsome partner, just watch out you don’t pick a poisonous one en route, it can ruin your day.  In relation to a successful visa application then maybe I have had to reach the end of all these many and manifest administrative cul de sacs in order that I ruled them out and finally made it to the finish.  I still feel like I’m living through my own bespoke episode of the krypton factor, and it’s not looking good.  On the other hand, even if there is a reluctance to issue business visas, surely they will want to welcome tourists?  Watch this space.

To keep you both entertained and informed, here is the sort of frog you should not kiss. It is a poison dart frog from central/south America apparently, and is rather fine I thought, Enjoy!

A universal problem-solving formula:

In the meantime, if you are wrestling with any problems, however complex, I came across this formula which I consider to be genius – I hope it works for you!

Visa Changes for Vietnam January 2015

Finally, the penny drops – just seen this on the Vietnamese Embassy website:

BUSINESS VISA

Starting from 1st Jan 2015, the Embassy of Viet Nam temporarily stop processing Business visa application due to the introduction of new Immigration Regulation. If you travel to Viet Nam for business purpose, your host organizations/partners/invitees in Vietnam will need to arrange your visa approval letter directly with the immigration office. The Embassy will issue business visa when the approval letter is submitted along with the application form and passport.

The Embassy may consider specific requests for business visa. Please contact us at consular@vietnamembassy.org.uk

Maybe the timing of all my requests coinciding with a change in visa regulations is contributing to the confusion about what exactly it is I’m supposed to do in respect of making an application for a Business Visa.  I’m still very unsure about how to proceed.  Will it be sufficient for me to supply a copy of the ‘Letter of Invitation?’  Will my host need to have direct communication with the immigration office, and what’s meant by that anyway?  Is that in Vietnam, or in the UK?

I feel I can’t do much more immediately.  I’m waiting for my legalised documents to be returned, I still have to get my police certificate returned to me, and I can’t speed up the medical health check as it has to be at my own GP and the earliest appointment I’ve been able to secure is a fortnight away.  It’s agonising….  I think this visa malarkey is going to take some time to fathom, my date of departure is moving further and further out of reach.

Criminal Clearance? Riddle two to solve en route to Vietnam …

According to the Vietnamese Government’s requirements, we will need the following documents from you:
1. Legalized copy of your degree(s). Please have your BA and MA diplomas legalized at any Vietnamese embassy/consulates in the UK.
2. Criminal Report/Police report/background report which is certified by your local police.
3. Health check

So, challenge two is to work out what on earth is meant by the Criminal Report.  My immediate presumption was that it must be what used to be a CRB check, but now is known as the DBS – Disclosure and Barring Service – however, a quick look at the website shows, as I suspected, that application for this is not by the employee, but by the employer.

I then did a lot of phoning around, starting with the 101 non emergency number, which put me through initially to a different CRB dept where someone advised me that this was wrong and I was transferred again, and again, and again.  Eventually though I spoke to a lovely person, who had herself been to Vietnam some years ago and was enthusiastic about trying to point me in the right direction.  The upshot of this is that I was told what I really needed was something called a Subject Access Report, which involved completing paperwork, and paying a fee, and could take ‘up to 40 days to process’.  This does not bode well, but is not something I can control.  Again I try and contact my host and ask if this is what they want and explain the length of time it might take to process.  Silence.  It does feel like screaming into the void.

I complete the paperwork, I provide proof of ID and addressees for the last 10 years,  I write out another cheque for £10, (I really do feel like this process is making me haemorrhage money) I note the delivery address and briefly consider driving the hour or so it will take me to drop it off in person.  I decide against it, the address is an industrial estate and in likelihood a processing centre only where I might not even be able to gain access.  I enclose a pleading letter and hope for the best in terms of a speedy turn around

Today I get a phone call. The bad news is that I am told that I have asked for completely the wrong thing, this is not the right department, or the right form or the right request.  The good news is that the nice woman who took the time to phone me has understood my urgency and directs me to acro instead.  I am given a phone number 0845 6013999 (which basically directs me to their website) and their website too.  I need to complete an FAR1 form it seems.  What deeper circle of hell is this I wonder?

I find the website, I find the form (I think – it doesn’t have any helpful reference number on it, only a scary warning about how an invalid form can cause delays.) I could weep, another £45 – or £80 for express service, and then another £9 on top for recorded delivery and extra again for multiple copies of any police clearance – plus I need passport photos, plus I need to find someone from a particular occupation list to verify this for me.  The list of occupations is bizarre and include the usual suspects ‘barristers, doctors, airline pilot’ but also ‘veterinary nurses and auctioneers’.  This list does not correspond to anyone in particular in my personal network.  Everything seems stacked against this trip.  Ironically I do know people in most of these professions but not for the two years’ minimum period, and others I might have approached I no longer share a city with.  I’m also hesitant as to whether this is the right thing to apply for at all in any event.  It doesn’t fit the bill for local police approval, but then again, that statement never did really stack up as the appropriate criteria.

Aaargh, so my next tasks are to get some up to date passport photos – which I need to do anyway, find someone to vouch for them, complete more paperwork and spend more money.  At this rate I’ll be destitute before I ever leave the country.  I wish my host would communicate with me.  I’m stumping up a lot of time and energy in pursuit of this, but beginning to wonder if I’m delusional for thinking this trip is even possible.  I did eventually try the advice line number again, and a very helpful individual confirmed that the ‘police certificate’ is the most likely document as it is the one usually supplied for visa applications to countries various – Canada, New Zealand, South Africa… however, no such agreement exists with Vietnam so no guarantee this is the right form.    I am told though, that this is ‘the most official looking’ of the documents, it has been issued over 100 times last year and accepted by the Vietnamese government/embassy so I think all I can do is bite the proverbial bullet and give it a go.

I think it’s absolutely fair to acknowledge when I signed up for this the greatest incentive to go was that I’d get to leave my current job, alas right now frying pans and fires and filling my thoughts…. ah well, I’ll find out one way or the other if I’ve jumped rashly or wisely!  Watch this space.

Legalised copies? Riddle one to solve en route to Vietnam – Fighting through the fog

Lost in the fog…. Letter of Invitation requirements:

According to the Vietnamese Government’s requirements, we will need the following documents from you:
1. Legalized copy of your degree(s). Please have your BA and MA diplomas legalized at any Vietnamese embassy/consulates in the UK.
2. Criminal Report/Police report/background report which is certified by your local police.
3. Health check

(Image courtesy of Dan at FreeDigitalPhotos.net)

So my letter of invitation which finally arrived by email outlining my offer to come and assist on an English Language Teaching Programme at a University in Vietnam requested ‘legalised copies’ of some of my qualifications, and I’ve really struggled to get my head around what this actually means.  I hope my narrative about what I’ve done might help others too.  If you aren’t in that situation, then this is probably way towards the boring and irrelevant end of the spectrum of my blogging attempts to date.  You have been warned!

The Vietnamese embassy in London didn’t really help.  My problem is that their website refers to them retaining copies of my qualifications which are accepted as ‘legalised’ by them, but my potential employer states in their ‘letter of invitation’ that I need to give them these legalised copies.  It doesn’t help that the process is incredibly expensive, unexpectedly so.  £35 per certificate (and they want two legalised) plus a £10 fee for returning AND you have to use a postal order (unless you can visit in person and pay cash) and for an £80 postal order that was an extra £10.  On top of all that I have to pay for recorded/ special delivery AND bite my nails for a week as I’m terrified of losing my original certificates for my entire Higher Education Experience at undergraduate and postgraduate levels.  On the plus side, the woman in the post office was very encouraging about going to Vietnam.

This is based on the fact that her nail technician is Vietnamese and one of the friendliest and kindest people you could meet apparently.  I don’t have my nails done personally.  For a  brief moment I wonder if I should – it suddenly occurred to me that I don’t think I’ve ever knowingly met anyone from Vietnam, and this strikes me suddenly as rather surprising.  My current-but-soon-to-be-former job role brings me into a lot of contact with international students, but I can’t think of anyone of Vietnamese nationality that I’ve worked with.  I recall walking past a nail bar in the city where I live.  I see the masked petite figures bending over their clients fingers.  Are all those workers Vietnamese?   I’ve never really thought about it, granted it’s not my kind of thing, I’ve never been to a nail bar in my life, but I have vaguely noticed the background of activity behind glass as I pass by.  If I stopped and went in, could I learn just a few words of greeting to help me prepare for my trip, but even if I could, would it be worth sacrificing my nails to the assault of such a brutal ‘manicure’.   Probably not. Then again, with all my recent nail biting angst, maybe I should be more open minded.  In the meantime, memo to self, find online Vietnamese language learning resource, I’m sure there must be some out there.

Pedants among you note, I did try and get clarification from more than one source.  Yes I did email the embassy for advice, but just got a general reply referring me back to their website, and I have three times tried to phone but got cut off after a long wait on two occasions, and caught in a loop of pre-recorded information announcements the third.  I also asked my hosts for clarification on the process but silence so far.

Worse, I don’t even know quite how the system works.  I’ve applied for this process separately from my actual visa, because I’ve not had any clarification on what visa to apply for and in any event, all the options on the embassy website are only for 30 or 90 day visas and presume a tourist visa.  Again I asked for clarification as I understand I need a business visa but I can’t work out how to apply for that and nor can I find any indication of costs.  The response to my email enquiry gave standard advice copied from their website and included the direction to contact for specific advice by email if this wasn’t covered by the website, which given that’s what I’d just done, did not instill confidence.  I am resigned that I will probably have to stump up the costs for a trip to London and apply for the Visa in person in order to get that right. The cost of two train trips to London though is prohibitive, and I worry in any case that the business via may be conditional on them having already legalised relevant qualifications.   Who knows.

I desperately searched the internet for guidance from others who had been through this process, hopefully successfully, but to no avail. I finally felt I can’t wait any longer, I’m supposed to be there in just a few weeks, so with much trepidation I have stumped up the cash and trusted my original qualification certificates to the vagueries of the post.

I’ll try and update this blog entry with how my application progresses and whether I’ve judged what is needed correctly.  Fingers crossed.  I sent a begging letter with my hefty postal order, enclosing the ‘letter of invitation’ and asking if they could in addition to retaining a legalised copy for themselves, return a legalised copy to me along with my certificates, but I’m not confident or optimistic as to the outcome.

In practical terms to apply you need to submit:

• Original documents
• Photocopies of the above documents to be retained by the Embassy
• Legalisation fees: please contact us. Payment should be in cash, postal order or bank draft made payable to ‘Embassy of Viet Nam’  It takes five working days to process your application, excluding posting time.
• Please add £10 and a self-addressed envelope if your application is to be sent and returned by post (return would be by Special Delivery)

I also enclosed (because I’m paranoid, and read on one website that this was also required):

• a covering letter explaining my situation
• two photocopies of each certificate (one for me one for them)
• a copy of my letter of invitation
• a copy of my passport

At least by taking action I feel I’ve taken back a bit of initiative, and the woman in the post office cheered me with her positivity.  I hope this has a happy ending. I could do with that, I really could…  Wish me luck!

Wavering not drowning…

Hmm, where to begin?  The last couple of days have been quite angst ridden to be honest and I’m finding it hard to hold my nerve regarding stepping bravely into the unknown as communication with my potential host in Vietnam has not been as clear and speedy as I’d like.  The practical challenges are starting to feel a bit overwhelming, the bureaucracy confusing, and the tendency for my emails requesting clarification from my Vietnamese contact to be met with silence has made me question whether or not they are in fact committed to having me.

I have contradictory voices in my head – on the one hand the ‘what the hell’, if you can’t cope with a bit of uncertainty before you’ve even got there then you need to toughen up and get on with it…’ on the other ‘hang on a minute, why are you even entertaining the idea of travelling thousands of miles to an unknown land if you can’t even get a response to your emails – how will it miraculously be OK when you get there?’  It’s really tricky, I feel a bit ‘in blood stepped so deep’ – for those of you who like a literary reference… I’ve already resigned from my job, and I have to do something.  I’ve incurred quite a bit of expense already in trying to meet their requirements, and frankly I’ve still got the final logic of ‘if I don’t go I’ll never know.’

So what’s been going on.  I had another brief attempt to communicate via Skype on the 27th December.  This time the connection was too shaky to talk so we resorted to instant messaging.  Again, this was reassuring, I had thought they wanted more information from me, but it seems not.  I asked for a written offer of the opportunity, and was promised it would come shortly, the following Monday in fact, and the delay was simply a consequence of the necessary signatory being away.  That was fine, but it still didn’t come.  After a further week  of waiting, I was feeling utterly dispirited, maybe they do think I’m too old, maybe they simply don’t appreciate my need to make preparations for such a long trip?  Eventually I wrote a polite but relatively assertive email, restating my intention to come if welcome, but asking for confirmation that they wished me to do so.  I did then receive an email with attached a ‘Letter of Invitation’ stating my name and qualifications, and the documentation they now required from me.  The sender said they had tried to email me at my work address (which they had in fact that morning, although previous correspondence had all been through a different account), and also that they were apparently waiting for my passport information, which they had not previously requested.  I’m giving this level of detail not to complain about anything, more to document it.  Things which are obvious from one position,= – be that Vietnam or the UK – are simply not obvious from the perspective of the other.   This whole exercise is raising my awareness of just how complicated communication can be.  Not only am I beginning to grasp the enormity of the bureaucracy I need to navigate to ‘make it so,’ but also I’m waking up to the real possibilities of cultural differences in how communication happens.  Am I coming across as push or rude, are they just badly organised or is there a different expectation of how agreements are made?  I am not in a position to judge, but it makes me anxious.

Specifically, the ‘letter of invitation’ asks for three things.  Now, these may seem modest requirements from the perspective of a Vietnamese University, but I feel like a traveler faced with the riddles of the sphinx – or whoever it was who came up with the fiendish challenges of the old myths and legends.

• Item one is ‘legalised copy of your degree(s) and specifies two qualifications
• Item two is ‘Criminal Report/police report/background report which is certified by your local police
• Health check

Initially I have no idea what any of these are, but I have a suspicion, borne out by bitter experience, that they sound potentially expensive, ambiguous and not speedily obtainable.  Hmmm indeed

I responded to the letter, supplying my passport details and asking for clarification on what exactly would meet these requirements (I have tried contacting the Vietnamese Embassy in the UK but they don’t answer their phone, and emails enquiries have been met with standardised answers which don’t address my particular questions.  It feels too hard.  Why am I putting myself through all of this if they don’t even seem especially proactive about helping me come?   I stare at the demands, look at the calendar and it feels impossible to achieve all of these things in time to go… and I still have no certainty about the visa application process either – again the Vietnamese embassy website doesn’t provide information relevant to my circumstances.  Aaargh!  I resort to google, not much help – hence my decision to document each of these processes as best i can in the hope that others may learn from me.  It not necessarily by modeling my shining example then by treating my approach as a dire warning of what can go wrong!

So, I’ve had a bit of a self-pity fest, and then picked myself up, dusted myself down and decided I have to just press on with this and see where it takes me.  Other people have successfully navigated more complex application processes, surely any reasonably intelligent person should be able to work it out.

I also remind myself of the prize, it wont all be flowers and kittens I know, but it will get me to a glorious country.  Can I risk missing out on seeing this…

Who was it that said “Have you ever noticed how ‘What the hell’ is always the right decision to make?”  Well here’s hoping they are right!